L'histoire comme je la comprend c'est que : 1 ancien élève de Nam Han qui étudie présentement avec Yang Hai à décidé sur le forum de Rum Soaked Fist de témoigner de son expérience avec l'école Wing Chun Orthodoxe, donc lui et d'autres habitués de ce forum ont parlé du fait que cette école utilise des thermes un peu bizarre comme "orthodoxe" et ont des pratiques, règles et philosophie qui peuvent sembler s'apparenter aux pratiques de mouvement sectaires, utilise des titres, ceintures, grades un peu ridicule selon certains ainsi que des défis que cette école lance à qui mieux-mieux au Québec et au Viet nam et tout ca sur les forums de Rum Soaked Fist. oh il a été question aussi du fameux trône du maître asser malade avec plein d'Armes fucked up qui en sort de tout bors tout cotés,qui a au fond de l'école orthodoxe.
La discussion s'enflamée et est devenue asser hard. Surtout pcq l'élève dénonçant l'école orthodoxe et les élèves défendant se connaissent bien et que l'identité de cette personne est connue. Aussi que cet ancien élève semble avoir subit des abus ou trauma psychologiques au sein de cet école.
Alors un des élève de l'école de WC orthodoxe à décider de défier publiquement Yang Hai sur le forum. Alors l'élève de Yang Hai a dit ca a son maitre. Surement du genre ok maitre la ya un gars qui te défi publiquement sur un forum on fait quoi?
Yang Hai a essayer d'appeler Nam Han. Mais le receptioniste de l'école orthodoxe a refuser de transférer l'appel car Yang Hai a utiliser le therme Monsieur Nam Ahn au lieu de grand maitre nam ahn.
voici un copy paste de l'appele téléphonique selon Yang Hai
YH (Myself, a short form of Yang Hai, which is my Chinese name): Hello, Wudang Internal.
N (symbol of the caller, or N means “name it by yourself”): Who am I talking with?
YH: My name is Hai Yang, you are talking with me.
N: I got your message, whom do you want to talk with in our association?
YH: Oh, good to know you got my message and thank you for calling back. I just want to talk with Mr.xxxx, in order to have a friendly communication for private issue.
N: There is no xxxx here! No!
YH: Really? Did I call a wrong number? Are you the xxxx school?
N: Yes, We have Grand Master xxxx, not Mr.xxxx. If you want to talk with him, you have to call him Grand Master!
YH: What?... Do I have to call him Grand Master? I just call him name with the title of Mr., is it not enough?
N: No Sir, not enough! you have to call him Grand Master!
YH: I am just using his real name, when he goes to see his doctor, he will just use his real name as xxxx, when he shows his passport to custom, his name is just xxxx. There is no such official title as Grand Master...
N: But you are in martial art community, you have to call him Grand Master! Otherwise...
YH: Wait, if I do not call him Grand Master, then what will happen?
N: You will not be able to talk with him! Are you a Grand Master?
YH: I do not think I will use this title by myself, and I do not think anyone should force others to call him with this title. Some people call me Grand Master in China, but I do NOT ask people call me that, nor force them.
N: No Sir, you have to call him Grand Master!
What is your level? You Ranking? How many stripes are on your belt?
YH: What are you talking about? Level? Ranking? Stripes? What is that? Do I have to have that?
N: You are a total beginner! You don’t even understand these terms!
YH: I understand these terms but I do not think I have anyone of them, and it is the first time people ask me about this when I just want to talk with someone.
N: You are just a beginner, because you have no rank, level and stripes! I can not help you much.
YH: But I just want to talk with xxxx for friendly communication in order to prevent unpleasant things to happen again...
N: No Sir, you have to call him Grand Master first, then, I will talk about other things with you.
YH: (speechless.... and politely hang up the phone after saying thank you and good bye).
After 10 minutes of self-calming and creative problem-solving brainstorm, I dialled their number.
YH: Hello, My name is Hai Yang, I am a Grand Grand Grand Grand Grand master in Kung Fu, I am in “Plus 3” level of martial art.
N: (another person from the same school): OK, I can help you now.
YH: Please write my name down and put the 5 Grands in front of the word Master, do not miss any of them. There are 5 Grands!
N: Yes, and what does “Plus 3” mean?
H:Oh, it means that any people in front of me, no matter which level or ranking he/she has, you should add 3 based on their current level. For example, if xxxx level is 9, mine will be 12. Very simple. You do not need a calculator for this simple math.
N: Yes, I got it, I have written it down...do not worry...
Then, I repeated the same request and the person at that line said that she will give this note to xxxx and the chief instructor may contact me in the future.
Yang Hai s'est probablement senti insulté de ce refu. et a publié un article sur le forum de rum soaked fist via son élève conernant les titres de maîtres et de grand maîtres dans le domaine des arts martiaux ainsi que leur irrelevance dans la société d aujourdhui et aussi que ces titres que les gens s'affuble ici ne sont même pas utiliser en chine, ni aujourdhui , ni même avant.
voici l'article en question: article quand même très intéressant et selon il illustre asser bien la réalité.
Chinese Martial Artist’s Title and Ranking
Recently I wrote an article about Wu De, which literally means martial art morality. After this article was posted, it seems that one local martial art school got offended by some of its content. One of that school’s students even try to initiate an Internet challenge to me due to his illusion that the anti-fraud article insulted his teacher. Even though I still do not know how to deal with this kind of new age cyber challenge, I thought that this type of impulsive virtual space conflict could be solved successfully through direct personal contact. So that , with good faith, I tried to contact the chief instructor of that local school for a friendly communication in order to prevent this kind of unpleasant thing from happening again. After leaving them my message, They eventually returned my call.
During the phone conversation between me and the caller from that school, I got a cultural shock, a very strong one. I can even say that it was one of the strongest ones since I have moved to Canada from China. I would like to share some conversational record and then, share my opinion on this subject.
********************
YH (Myself, a short form of Yang Hai, which is my Chinese name): Hello, Wudang Internal.
N (symbol of the caller, or N means “name it by yourself”): Who am I talking with?
YH: My name is Hai Yang, you are talking with me.
N: I got your message, whom do you want to talk with in our association?
YH: Oh, good to know you got my message and thank you for calling back. I just want to talk with Mr.xxxx, in order to have a friendly communication for private issue.
N: There is no xxxx here! No!
YH: Really? Did I call a wrong number? Are you the xxxx school?
N: Yes, We have Grand Master xxxx, not Mr.xxxx. If you want to talk with him, you have to call him Grand Master!
YH: What?... Do I have to call him Grand Master? I just call him name with the title of Mr., is it not enough?
N: No Sir, not enough! you have to call him Grand Master!
YH: I am just using his real name, when he goes to see his doctor, he will just use his real name as xxxx, when he shows his passport to custom, his name is just xxxx. There is no such official title as Grand Master...
N: But you are in martial art community, you have to call him Grand Master! Otherwise...
YH: Wait, if I do not call him Grand Master, then what will happen?
N: You will not be able to talk with him! Are you a Grand Master?
YH: I do not think I will use this title by myself, and I do not think anyone should force others to call him with this title. Some people call me Grand Master in China, but I do NOT ask people call me that, nor force them.
N: No Sir, you have to call him Grand Master!
What is your level? You Ranking? How many stripes are on your belt?
YH: What are you talking about? Level? Ranking? Stripes? What is that? Do I have to have that?
N: You are a total beginner! You don’t even understand these terms!
YH: I understand these terms but I do not think I have anyone of them, and it is the first time people ask me about this when I just want to talk with someone.
N: You are just a beginner, because you have no rank, level and stripes! I can not help you much.
YH: But I just want to talk with xxxx for friendly communication in order to prevent unpleasant things to happen again...
N: No Sir, you have to call him Grand Master first, then, I will talk about other things with you.
YH: (speechless.... and politely hang up the phone after saying thank you and good bye).
After 10 minutes of self-calming and creative problem-solving brainstorm, I dialled their number.
YH: Hello, My name is Hai Yang, I am a Grand Grand Grand Grand Grand master in Kung Fu, I am in “Plus 3” level of martial art.
N: (another person from the same school): OK, I can help you now.
YH: Please write my name down and put the 5 Grands in front of the word Master, do not miss any of them. There are 5 Grands!
N: Yes, and what does “Plus 3” mean?
YH:Oh, it means that any people in front of me, no matter which level or ranking he/she has, you should add 3 based on their current level. For example, if xxxx level is 9, mine will be 12. Very simple. You do not need a calculator for this simple math.
N: Yes, I got it, I have written it down...do not worry...
Then, I repeated the same request and the person at that line said that she will give this note to xxxx and the chief instructor may contact me in the future.
*****************
After I successfully asked them to leave a note to their chief instructor, I sat down and thought a lot. I found that some people really do not understand the meaning and history of the titles used in Chinese martial art community, nor do people know the history of the ranking system. This is the original reason I began writing this article.
Martial artist’s titles used in Chinese martial art community can be traced back hundreds of years. During the different dynasties, since martial artists could work for government as an official, their title would be named according to their governmental ranking in the feudal system. Any of those who did not work in the government would not have any official title. Sometimes, people call them “Wu Shi---martial artist”(武士）“Xia Ke”（侠客）,“Quan Shi----Martial Teacher”(拳师）. We can find the proof and evidence of these titles from old documents.
Then, from the beginning of the 1900s, or we can say just about 100 years ago, people began to use some new titles such as “Ming Jia---famous martial artist(名家）、“Ji Ji Jia----fighting expert”（技击家). These titles were created for those who had achieved a certain level in that period, and some titles are still used currently.
Some other terms such as “Da Shi----Grand Master(大师）came to the martial art community in China much later, or about 50 years ago, maximum. We can only can find this term in more recent documents, not more than 50 years ago.
Later, from about 25 years ago, so many Kung Fu movies came out and these term “Da Shi, or Grand Master” began to be seen very often in martial art movies but still not in the real life.
About 15 years ago, the word “Da Shi”began to be used more often than before. this term was originally from temples. it has been applied in the martial art community since then.
So there was no such term as Grand Master in the old time of China, as a term, it is in its infancy in China, the age of this term in Chinese martial art community is at its maximum only 25 years old! And there is no such thing as an official standard of judging anyone becoming a Grand Master or not, anyone who has achieved a very high level in any field can be called a Grand Master, this title can be used in many fields in China.
Now, we know the term Grand Master’s brief history.
But how about “Shi Fu” or Sifu in Cantonese? This term has been used very common in martial art community, especially when you go to Chinatown, if you say the word “Shi Fu” very louldly, probably many Chinese people will turn their head and look at you. Because there are so many “Shi Fu” in Chinese culture, ANYONE can be a “Shi Fu” when he master certain level of skills.
In martial art community, Shi Fu means teacher, coach. Some people translated it as Teacher Father. I still can not find out where this term came from. Since the sound “Fu” has multiple characters in writing, the two most are “teacher” or “father” For sure the second one sounds nice to these who want to hear it, but how about the feeling of the person of who use it to call others? I only use this word for those who are “older” than me in age and knowledge.
To myself, I always tell my student the meaning of Shi Fu is teacher or someone who has certain skills. I am only a father of my children at my home. It is very important to me since I believe that everyone no matter what skill they have, they can not be other people's “teacher father” so casually, since “teacher father” indicates much more responsibility. If someone is not ready to put responsibility as a “father”, I recommend that they please do not use this word.
let’s just forget the word Grand Master for a moment. can someone force others to call him “Shi Fu” or “Master”? The answer is no. The reason is very simple that your title is given to you by people when they want to address you. whatever they want, it is not a obligation for anyone to call you any title beside your name.
So no matter what, No one, if the person has a righteous mind, should force others to call himself Shi Fu, or Master, or even Grand Master.
The title of Master or Grand Master can not make oneself better at anything. After we understand that any titles in the martial art community should be used by other people who want to address you, then, we will understand that Grand Master is not like a hat that you can pick it up and put on your head, to cover your baldness!!!... this is how we say this in Chinese expression.
And, in China, no one will call himself as Shi Fu or Master, No one! just like no one will force others to call him with this title either. You will never see this kind of thing happen over there. Shi Fu or Grand Master is not an official title for yourself, only in English book or magazine can we see this kind of thing happen.
But after I moved to North America, sometimes, I got some e-mail and letter from other schools, some of them sign their name as Master xxxx or Shi Fu xxxx. I was surprised by this in the beginning. Later on, i got used to seeing this phenomena. I understand it that people do not know the cultural difference, even though they are doing Chinese arts, but they still apply their tradition from Japan or other countries.
Now, I would like to talk about something about ranking system in Chinese martial art.
The martial art ranking system in China is a new system too, it came out about 30 years ago. Before that, there were only some certain titles of ranking without the systematical degrees that we see in the present day. their rankings were gained through fighting competitions in the beginning of the 1920s.
From the beginning of 1980s, the Chinese government began to apply Wushu ranking system in the Chinese martial art community in China. in the beginning, this ranking system was only used by State-owned associations. From about 10 years ago, some martial art schools and non-state-owned associations began to design their own ranking systems in order to make the practice more approachable and accountable.
In the west, the ranking system may have existed for decades but, I do not have this information since I am only familiar with the Chinese system, mainly from China.
But no matter what,
you should not judge others according to their number of level and ranking.
You should not judge other people according to YOUR system of ranking,
You should not practice only for these rankings and levels,
You should not pay to buy this ranking no matter how cheap the price is.
I think these principles are very important in terms of understanding the true value of practicing of Chinese martial art.
If someone does not participate in any ranking system, then others should not say this person is in a very low level due to the fact that he does not own any ranking. Ranks from one local school or your own association can not stand for the greater global level of martial art practice, certain ranking system only can be applied in your own association, there is no universal ranking system.
Back to my own personal experience of dealing with these who do not know the true history and meaning of title and ranking system of Chinese martial art, it is not surprising to see that their words are lacking of basic knowledge of the art we are practicing. It is a sad thing but fortunately more and more people in the world begin to realize the problem and many of them are working hard to correct these wrong concepts which have spread so far.
In the end, I would like to say again that Grand Master is not an official title and your own ranking system can not be applied to others. Title can not make you become a great martial artist, uniform can not make your skill better, your self-judged title will not convince anyone in the real world. The world is changing so fast that many new things come out every single day. But the fundamental principle of human being will never change, it is respect, loyalty, being real, sincerity, and honesty.
Let’s keep practicing and make these arts survive in the future’s millenniums with accurate content and right direction.
* I appreciate my student, Mr.James Coons and Mao Yang, in helping me to correct my English. I always can learn something from my students.
** To those who are reading this article, please do not take the story which is my real personal experience as a way of being insulted. If some scenario in this article fit the situation of your own experience, it is just a coincidence.
*** Please do not practice Internet cyber challenging due to your own over-sensitivity toward cultural related article and opinion. All of us are living in a free-speech society, not the country on the other side of the earth.
**** Any school who has problems or conflicts with your previous students should not seek me as a victim just because your previous students speak out their personal experience about your school in public or some of them come to my school to practice. It is their choice, please respect their decision, and please ,do not harass me by any means. Clean your own debts first then, think of making gain in the future. It is a virtue and a sign of maturity.
***** I am an immigrant from China, I appreciate that local people accepted me as a Canadian citizen. In returning their acceptance, I do my best to make the community which I am living in more prosperous. One aspect to show my appreciation is to transfer the real knowledge and practice to them, especially to the local people who accepted me. I really hope any immigrants in this community will do the same, to build our community as a better place.
****** Keeping communication is a valuable way of solve any problem. I hope these school who have problems with their previous students should persue this positive and constructive way of doing. Open your heart and stop looking for excuses, then your opponent’s heart will sense it eventually. Good luck with your own problems!
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l'école orthodoxe se sentant insulté par cet article.
Et bang, 2 gars se pointent à l'école de Yang Hai pendent un cour de taiji, caméra a la main....demandant un sparring amical....Yang Hai gère la situation d'une manière très questionable pour un gars qui a 30 ans d'expérience dans les arts martiaux...... bref... on a la vidéo sur laquelle on vois tout ce qui c'est passé sauf le combat.
Personellement j'ai des emotions contradictoires face a cet évènement.
Alors mon cher Yeux de Jade, qui que tu sois et peut importe ton allégence. Bienvenue sur le forum. Si tu as beaucoup de chose a dire et a témoigner sur le sujet , je serais heureux de l'entendre....
